As some have tried, and many have wondered, we're reviewing a trio of juices from Johnson Creek.
With technically being the first E-Juice that we ever had sampled around 2008-2009, in the Blu technology, we wanted to see how these juices held up, and if the company's claims of traditionalism and high standard met the match.
With technically being the first E-Juice that we ever had sampled around 2008-2009, in the Blu technology, we wanted to see how these juices held up, and if the company's claims of traditionalism and high standard met the match.
Most vapers know the company of Johnson Creek, wether they know it or not. Johnson Creek supplies the E-Juice that the E-Cig brand Blu uses in their cartomizers, and we ourselves loved the E-Juice found in these generally around the 2009 era. We fell in love with the Blu back then because of the flavors of caramel, buttered popcorn, and general sweetness that emulated from the cartomizers... back when Blu's cartomizers and batteries were not so faulty.
Generally speaking, back in those days, the E-Juice found in the Blu was sweet, thick, and candy-like - much like the E-Juice brewed by a lot of "local shops", but even better. We really enjoy these smooth, sweet juices, and now, we want to see if Johnson Creek holds a delicious, smooth flavor in general, or if the brand is an entirely different entity than the brands it provides for. We also want to test the countless claims found online of this company's product - claims that are both tremendously bad and sometimes notoriously good.
First, we have to give the company an amount of credit - they are indeed one of the oldest E-Juice companies around, and the sanitary standards they provide, as documented openly in many of their website videos, show a company that's willing to get behind the times and provide customers with a safe product. We certainly don't know how much science goes into the product, and we haven't been able to track down any info on if the employees of Johnson Creek are reputable, trained chemists, or rather ex-janitors who only know a thing or two about Windex and Pine-Sol, but for better or worse, we want to believe the better.
Starting off, we have Genuine 22. This juice is from a new line in Johnson Creek, Kiln House, a line claiming to be rather based in artistry and the gourmet, a line we'd expect to pack delicate flavors, artisan touches, and complex notes.
... However, quite frankly, Fancy Feast claims the same thing, and tastes better.
That's right, you heard it right, without a doubt, this E-Liquid tastes like Cat Food. Pure and simple. Now before anyone harks on about the famous flavor-oddities that our reviewer here at Good News! often perceives, there's quite substantial reviews on Youtube where many reviewers claim that Johnson Creek juice has a "meaty" undertone that is highly unpleasant. Countless claims have related this brands juices to "puke", "meat", and other such descriptions. Well, without bothering to give this juice even so much as a respectful explanation of why this may be, we'll simply say - this juice is for the dogs. It's not even for the hogs.
For our viewer's sake, though, we will say that this juice is described, by Johnson Creek, as a medley of nuts, grains, sweetness, tobacco, and all such and forth. We've had juices that meet this description perfectly, juices that breem of golden wheaty tones, sugary goodness, hints of tobacco, roasted almonds and nuts (we're looking at the Fin), and we really wanted Genuine 22. to relate. But it tastes like something you'd feed an animal. We just don't get it and we don't know how any reputable company could make something like this.
Next, we move on to the Kiln House Silverthorn.
This is where the review starts to get a tad more positive, but not entirely. When sampling Silverthorn, right away, we're hit with a surprise - this juice is remarkably like an Naturally Extracted Tobacco juice, specifically an extremely harsh tobacco blend. For those that don't know what Naturally Extracted Tobacco E-Juices are, they are juices that do contain tobacco particles and flavorings sourced from actual tobacco (and don't worry, companies always disclose which juices are made this way, and they're quite rare - don't worry about stumbling across one and accidentally subjecting yourself to actual tobacco). But we've tried those types of juices here at Good News! Vaping Reviews, and we love them, and we know them, and we're actually quite shocked at what Silverthorn tastes like.
Now, as we're sitting here puffing on Silverthorn, we're a bit cautious. We know this isn't a Naturally Extracted Tobacco juice, and while we're really shocked at the absolute pipe-tobacco authenticity this juice displays, there's a stout obviousity that this is not a Naturally Extracted Tobacco juice. Up front, there is a strong flavor profile of the sweaty, funk-filled, dirtiness of a Pipe Tobacco, however, what brings this juice down a notch is a layer of what we'll call rubbery-ness. The juice is almost mechanical in flavor. There's been countless claims that Johnson Creek E-Liquid tastes as though they use Gasoline or Machine Oil to achieve a dark, dirty taste, and to be completely honest, what makes this juice unpleasant is that very tone. Tasting this juice, and tasting Genuine 22., we're actually a little scared at this point about what Johnson Creek may be putting in this stuff.
Just not really a good juice either. What we are shocked at though is the fact that this juice is an exact replica of a Pipe Tobacco. We're not talking about an E-Juice that is a clean, vaporized version of Pipe Tobacco (which is the type we love.) This E-Juice is probably the dirtiest, harshest, true-to-life Pipe Tobacco juice we've ever sampled. It's only 1.1% nicotine, to boot! As soon as we take a puff, we're instantly reminded of a hot tobacco pipe that really doesn't allow any flavor of the original tobacco to come through. This stuff is harsh, it's leathery, it's industrial, it's hot, and it's without a doubt true-to-life - wether this means this juice is contaminanted or expertly made, we just can't tell.
Actually, as we keep puffing on it, we keep wondering about this E-Juice. We're not beating around the bush here, E-Juices come and go, but this one, this is a pipe tobacco. It's for the guys who like hair on their chest, if this is truly the intentional flavor. We enjoy smooth, flavorful pipe tobacco E-Juices, this one is harsh, like the authentic. It's corn-cob pipe harsh. This is something that we wouldn't share with our friends out of fear of looks that read out as "What the heck do you enjoy about this?", but as tobacco lovers, the sheer absolute replication is almost spot-on. It's an E-Juice that, if not faulty, we do understand the flavor profile. Yet, it's a juice that, for what Johnson Creek has replicated here, if it is indeed the intended product, it still cannot get a good review.
Simply put, there's rubbery notes to the juice (which actually makes us fear that all this "harshness" and "authenticity" is actually "mechanical oil" that got spilled into the juice), and for what it is, we just can't vape it. This is a juice that, at best, needs a full disclaimer. From the description on Johnson Creek's website, it's as though they don't know what they're dealing with here, and it makes us fear that we got a contaminated batch. Thinking in a less positive mindset, we'd truly warn that this juice actually tastes like black, burning rubber. In that mindframe, it makes us worry. However, for anyone who's tried pipe tobacco, the truth is that there can be little distinction between the two depending on the blend (especially with cheap blends!), and at this point, we have to claim that either, A. The person who made this juice smokes cheap pipe tobaccos and has an extraordinarily savant hand at replicating the harsh smoke, or B. This juice is contaminated with something poisonous.
Usually, here at Good News!, we're pretty pinpoint about pointing out what's "wrong" with a juice, but when it comes to Silverthorn, we truly cannot tell if this juice is laced with gasoline or created by a master blender, someone who might be a premier genius in the E-Juice field and has created something even no Naturally Extracted Tobacco juice has managed to do. When comparing Silverthorn to authentic (and cheap) pipe tobacco, how do you really know wether this juice is either spot-on or severely contaminanted with gasoline? That's what pipe tobacco pretty much tastes like.
We say buy this juice at your own risk. It's either extremely toxic or the most authentic thing you'll ever vape in your lifetime. It's harsh.
The final juice is Swiss Dark. We wanted to give Johnson Creek a chance in the chocolate department, to see if they've managed to create any chocolates that actually work and do not burn. Upon sampling, right away, we're hit with a surprising, strong pipe tobacco smoke with only tiny hints of chocolate. The vapor is eerily alike to the Silverthorn, which makes us that much more concerned that these juices are contaminanted with a gasoline-like substance. This juice is is pretty unvapable, and studying the nose of the juice as well, we get an extremely strong, rubbery, gasoline-like scent that just doesn't seem anywhere near normal in a Chocolate juice, one that doesn't mention anything about tobacco in the description. Again, it really tastes pretty much just like Silverthorn.
Overall, we were really excited about these juices, and now, we're really let down and even, well, afraid. Every bit of the "negative reviews" that exist on the internet are true about this company, down to the meaty taste, to the chemical harshness, to the lack of any sweetness, to juice that just doesn't taste clean, to a "gasoline"-like taste. One thing we were indeed surprised to find is that Johnson Creek juices really aren't all that thick - even the Genuine 22, which is pure VG, is much thinner than other pure VG juices we've had. We'd have guess it as a 50/50 blend or thinner, if truth be told. We didn't really seem to have problems with these juices wicking in our atomizers, though we are indeed using the Fluxomizers by Got Vapes, which helps.
At this time, we just can't give Johnson Creek any good credit, and we're actually a bit shocked how anyone could vape this stuff, unless we're simply allergic or sensitive to something many people aren't. But then again, we also refuse to get paid to type good reviews, so, you know....
It's not like we're going to give up without a fight, though. We plan on testing Johnson Creek's refund and return policy, which is to provide refunds or store credit for any 15ml or 30ml bottle of E-Liquid for any reason whatsoever. We're sure as heck going to test that system out. Until then, this is the review for Johnson Creek Smoke Juice!
And we're not going to even include a link. If you want this juice, we want you to have as much trouble finding it as possible, and we hope your computer crashes on the way there, because to be honest, we'd rather you still be able to hold puke down every time you feed your cat and get a whiff of your pet's food. We don't want you get sick after vaping what truly tastes like gasoline. At this point, we're pretty afraid of what's in this juice, and it by no means tastes normal or healthy to us. All three juices pretty much taste like the fumes from a Diesel engine, and we hope to spread the word. Even if by some slim chance that this E-Juice is created to replicate the extremely harsh, industrial tones of Pipe Tobacco, the truth is, %99.9 of the vapers out there wouldn't dare enjoy this juice.
We only vaped it for a little bit because we questioned what this juice was about, having known pipe tobacco. Most people would automatically associate these juices with gasoline, without a doubt.
If we had the funds, we'd try to get this juice tested in a lab, that's how toxic these juices are really presenting themselves to be. We've only had one other juice across our span of testing (over ~4 years) that has ever presented a scent and flavor alike to this, and that was with a juice by Indigo, specifically their RY4. All we can describe it as, is an extreme rubber and gasoline flavor, too smokey, burning, and industrial to ever really be the "goal" of an E-juice, and having a bit of knowledge about juice ingredients, and even the process that goes into Naturally Extracted Tobacco's, we have no clue what could be causing this extreme taste in any liquid.
There's simply no flavorings out there that could combine to create this product other than industrial chemicals (gasoline), and to be completely honest, with this review, we warn people not to buy juice from this company as of right now. We'd actually suggest smoking actual tobacco in place of this - even the harshest, cheapest of tobaccos we've tried here taste healthier and cleaner than this stuff. It's really that bad. We warn not to trust any E-Juice company "just because they make E-Juice", because the truth is, with the flavor ingredients, as well as PG, VG, and Nicotine, all being sourced from various places, the statistical chance that gasoline or any other chemical could be spilled into vats of any particular ingredient is pretty darn high.
We only hope that Johnson Creek actually do "flavor tests" with their own employees to ensure that the batches are good. However, if they did, we're certain that these juices wouldn't have passed through the line, unless the employees either smoke packs of Black'n'Milds by the day. This stuff just isn't right. We're not vaping on it until we know for sure, and even then, these are not flavors we'd ever imagine vaping. If we wanted something that tastes like this, we'd run down to the tobacco shop and load up a corn-cob pipe that comes with a cheap, $5 pack of tobacco. It's much easier, and from where we stand, possibly safer. There's a good chance that most Pipe Tobaccos go through less processing than this E-Juice did!
Update: We talked to Johnson Creek and they're sending us the Red Oak Tennessee Cured and Merango. We also report that we've experienced extreme coughing throughout the day after trying the juices in this review. We still have a "gasoline" taste in our mouth hours later. We have no clue what's in these juices, but we highly warn for our viewers not to buy them. At the very least, wait until we provide an update on what the juice changes into after steeping; we will test them later.
We'll let you know if the two replacements, and the current juices after steeping, end up being better.
Update: We received Marcado and Red Oak Tennessee Cured, and well, a very long story short, the Marcado tastes like extremely watered-down (we can taste the "bottled water" flavor of he H2O) rose-petals, and the Red Oak Tennessee Cured tastes like extremely watered-down cat food, a weaker version of the Kiln House Genuine 22. Something is extremely wrong with Johnson Creek's production standards; the previous round of juices tasted like engine grease, and this round tastes like bottled water. The consistency of the juices, despite being %100 or predominant VG, is pure water. Almost colorless and water-thin.
We're very confident that whoever is mixing these juices simply doesn't know what they're doing, and is putting way too much flavor concentration and/or water into the mix, and is forgetting to add multiple flavorings. Thankfully, Johnson Creek's return policy is the absolute best in the business, they'll do anything you ask, no questions. We're being refunded for the whole journey. Amazing customer service, truly, but at this point, we can see why: the truth is, we wouldn't even give this stuff away. It's rank and some of it tastes plain unhealthy.
Generally speaking, back in those days, the E-Juice found in the Blu was sweet, thick, and candy-like - much like the E-Juice brewed by a lot of "local shops", but even better. We really enjoy these smooth, sweet juices, and now, we want to see if Johnson Creek holds a delicious, smooth flavor in general, or if the brand is an entirely different entity than the brands it provides for. We also want to test the countless claims found online of this company's product - claims that are both tremendously bad and sometimes notoriously good.
First, we have to give the company an amount of credit - they are indeed one of the oldest E-Juice companies around, and the sanitary standards they provide, as documented openly in many of their website videos, show a company that's willing to get behind the times and provide customers with a safe product. We certainly don't know how much science goes into the product, and we haven't been able to track down any info on if the employees of Johnson Creek are reputable, trained chemists, or rather ex-janitors who only know a thing or two about Windex and Pine-Sol, but for better or worse, we want to believe the better.
Starting off, we have Genuine 22. This juice is from a new line in Johnson Creek, Kiln House, a line claiming to be rather based in artistry and the gourmet, a line we'd expect to pack delicate flavors, artisan touches, and complex notes.
... However, quite frankly, Fancy Feast claims the same thing, and tastes better.
That's right, you heard it right, without a doubt, this E-Liquid tastes like Cat Food. Pure and simple. Now before anyone harks on about the famous flavor-oddities that our reviewer here at Good News! often perceives, there's quite substantial reviews on Youtube where many reviewers claim that Johnson Creek juice has a "meaty" undertone that is highly unpleasant. Countless claims have related this brands juices to "puke", "meat", and other such descriptions. Well, without bothering to give this juice even so much as a respectful explanation of why this may be, we'll simply say - this juice is for the dogs. It's not even for the hogs.
For our viewer's sake, though, we will say that this juice is described, by Johnson Creek, as a medley of nuts, grains, sweetness, tobacco, and all such and forth. We've had juices that meet this description perfectly, juices that breem of golden wheaty tones, sugary goodness, hints of tobacco, roasted almonds and nuts (we're looking at the Fin), and we really wanted Genuine 22. to relate. But it tastes like something you'd feed an animal. We just don't get it and we don't know how any reputable company could make something like this.
Next, we move on to the Kiln House Silverthorn.
This is where the review starts to get a tad more positive, but not entirely. When sampling Silverthorn, right away, we're hit with a surprise - this juice is remarkably like an Naturally Extracted Tobacco juice, specifically an extremely harsh tobacco blend. For those that don't know what Naturally Extracted Tobacco E-Juices are, they are juices that do contain tobacco particles and flavorings sourced from actual tobacco (and don't worry, companies always disclose which juices are made this way, and they're quite rare - don't worry about stumbling across one and accidentally subjecting yourself to actual tobacco). But we've tried those types of juices here at Good News! Vaping Reviews, and we love them, and we know them, and we're actually quite shocked at what Silverthorn tastes like.
Now, as we're sitting here puffing on Silverthorn, we're a bit cautious. We know this isn't a Naturally Extracted Tobacco juice, and while we're really shocked at the absolute pipe-tobacco authenticity this juice displays, there's a stout obviousity that this is not a Naturally Extracted Tobacco juice. Up front, there is a strong flavor profile of the sweaty, funk-filled, dirtiness of a Pipe Tobacco, however, what brings this juice down a notch is a layer of what we'll call rubbery-ness. The juice is almost mechanical in flavor. There's been countless claims that Johnson Creek E-Liquid tastes as though they use Gasoline or Machine Oil to achieve a dark, dirty taste, and to be completely honest, what makes this juice unpleasant is that very tone. Tasting this juice, and tasting Genuine 22., we're actually a little scared at this point about what Johnson Creek may be putting in this stuff.
Just not really a good juice either. What we are shocked at though is the fact that this juice is an exact replica of a Pipe Tobacco. We're not talking about an E-Juice that is a clean, vaporized version of Pipe Tobacco (which is the type we love.) This E-Juice is probably the dirtiest, harshest, true-to-life Pipe Tobacco juice we've ever sampled. It's only 1.1% nicotine, to boot! As soon as we take a puff, we're instantly reminded of a hot tobacco pipe that really doesn't allow any flavor of the original tobacco to come through. This stuff is harsh, it's leathery, it's industrial, it's hot, and it's without a doubt true-to-life - wether this means this juice is contaminanted or expertly made, we just can't tell.
Actually, as we keep puffing on it, we keep wondering about this E-Juice. We're not beating around the bush here, E-Juices come and go, but this one, this is a pipe tobacco. It's for the guys who like hair on their chest, if this is truly the intentional flavor. We enjoy smooth, flavorful pipe tobacco E-Juices, this one is harsh, like the authentic. It's corn-cob pipe harsh. This is something that we wouldn't share with our friends out of fear of looks that read out as "What the heck do you enjoy about this?", but as tobacco lovers, the sheer absolute replication is almost spot-on. It's an E-Juice that, if not faulty, we do understand the flavor profile. Yet, it's a juice that, for what Johnson Creek has replicated here, if it is indeed the intended product, it still cannot get a good review.
Simply put, there's rubbery notes to the juice (which actually makes us fear that all this "harshness" and "authenticity" is actually "mechanical oil" that got spilled into the juice), and for what it is, we just can't vape it. This is a juice that, at best, needs a full disclaimer. From the description on Johnson Creek's website, it's as though they don't know what they're dealing with here, and it makes us fear that we got a contaminated batch. Thinking in a less positive mindset, we'd truly warn that this juice actually tastes like black, burning rubber. In that mindframe, it makes us worry. However, for anyone who's tried pipe tobacco, the truth is that there can be little distinction between the two depending on the blend (especially with cheap blends!), and at this point, we have to claim that either, A. The person who made this juice smokes cheap pipe tobaccos and has an extraordinarily savant hand at replicating the harsh smoke, or B. This juice is contaminated with something poisonous.
Usually, here at Good News!, we're pretty pinpoint about pointing out what's "wrong" with a juice, but when it comes to Silverthorn, we truly cannot tell if this juice is laced with gasoline or created by a master blender, someone who might be a premier genius in the E-Juice field and has created something even no Naturally Extracted Tobacco juice has managed to do. When comparing Silverthorn to authentic (and cheap) pipe tobacco, how do you really know wether this juice is either spot-on or severely contaminanted with gasoline? That's what pipe tobacco pretty much tastes like.
We say buy this juice at your own risk. It's either extremely toxic or the most authentic thing you'll ever vape in your lifetime. It's harsh.
The final juice is Swiss Dark. We wanted to give Johnson Creek a chance in the chocolate department, to see if they've managed to create any chocolates that actually work and do not burn. Upon sampling, right away, we're hit with a surprising, strong pipe tobacco smoke with only tiny hints of chocolate. The vapor is eerily alike to the Silverthorn, which makes us that much more concerned that these juices are contaminanted with a gasoline-like substance. This juice is is pretty unvapable, and studying the nose of the juice as well, we get an extremely strong, rubbery, gasoline-like scent that just doesn't seem anywhere near normal in a Chocolate juice, one that doesn't mention anything about tobacco in the description. Again, it really tastes pretty much just like Silverthorn.
Overall, we were really excited about these juices, and now, we're really let down and even, well, afraid. Every bit of the "negative reviews" that exist on the internet are true about this company, down to the meaty taste, to the chemical harshness, to the lack of any sweetness, to juice that just doesn't taste clean, to a "gasoline"-like taste. One thing we were indeed surprised to find is that Johnson Creek juices really aren't all that thick - even the Genuine 22, which is pure VG, is much thinner than other pure VG juices we've had. We'd have guess it as a 50/50 blend or thinner, if truth be told. We didn't really seem to have problems with these juices wicking in our atomizers, though we are indeed using the Fluxomizers by Got Vapes, which helps.
At this time, we just can't give Johnson Creek any good credit, and we're actually a bit shocked how anyone could vape this stuff, unless we're simply allergic or sensitive to something many people aren't. But then again, we also refuse to get paid to type good reviews, so, you know....
It's not like we're going to give up without a fight, though. We plan on testing Johnson Creek's refund and return policy, which is to provide refunds or store credit for any 15ml or 30ml bottle of E-Liquid for any reason whatsoever. We're sure as heck going to test that system out. Until then, this is the review for Johnson Creek Smoke Juice!
And we're not going to even include a link. If you want this juice, we want you to have as much trouble finding it as possible, and we hope your computer crashes on the way there, because to be honest, we'd rather you still be able to hold puke down every time you feed your cat and get a whiff of your pet's food. We don't want you get sick after vaping what truly tastes like gasoline. At this point, we're pretty afraid of what's in this juice, and it by no means tastes normal or healthy to us. All three juices pretty much taste like the fumes from a Diesel engine, and we hope to spread the word. Even if by some slim chance that this E-Juice is created to replicate the extremely harsh, industrial tones of Pipe Tobacco, the truth is, %99.9 of the vapers out there wouldn't dare enjoy this juice.
We only vaped it for a little bit because we questioned what this juice was about, having known pipe tobacco. Most people would automatically associate these juices with gasoline, without a doubt.
If we had the funds, we'd try to get this juice tested in a lab, that's how toxic these juices are really presenting themselves to be. We've only had one other juice across our span of testing (over ~4 years) that has ever presented a scent and flavor alike to this, and that was with a juice by Indigo, specifically their RY4. All we can describe it as, is an extreme rubber and gasoline flavor, too smokey, burning, and industrial to ever really be the "goal" of an E-juice, and having a bit of knowledge about juice ingredients, and even the process that goes into Naturally Extracted Tobacco's, we have no clue what could be causing this extreme taste in any liquid.
There's simply no flavorings out there that could combine to create this product other than industrial chemicals (gasoline), and to be completely honest, with this review, we warn people not to buy juice from this company as of right now. We'd actually suggest smoking actual tobacco in place of this - even the harshest, cheapest of tobaccos we've tried here taste healthier and cleaner than this stuff. It's really that bad. We warn not to trust any E-Juice company "just because they make E-Juice", because the truth is, with the flavor ingredients, as well as PG, VG, and Nicotine, all being sourced from various places, the statistical chance that gasoline or any other chemical could be spilled into vats of any particular ingredient is pretty darn high.
We only hope that Johnson Creek actually do "flavor tests" with their own employees to ensure that the batches are good. However, if they did, we're certain that these juices wouldn't have passed through the line, unless the employees either smoke packs of Black'n'Milds by the day. This stuff just isn't right. We're not vaping on it until we know for sure, and even then, these are not flavors we'd ever imagine vaping. If we wanted something that tastes like this, we'd run down to the tobacco shop and load up a corn-cob pipe that comes with a cheap, $5 pack of tobacco. It's much easier, and from where we stand, possibly safer. There's a good chance that most Pipe Tobaccos go through less processing than this E-Juice did!
Update: We talked to Johnson Creek and they're sending us the Red Oak Tennessee Cured and Merango. We also report that we've experienced extreme coughing throughout the day after trying the juices in this review. We still have a "gasoline" taste in our mouth hours later. We have no clue what's in these juices, but we highly warn for our viewers not to buy them. At the very least, wait until we provide an update on what the juice changes into after steeping; we will test them later.
We'll let you know if the two replacements, and the current juices after steeping, end up being better.
Update: We received Marcado and Red Oak Tennessee Cured, and well, a very long story short, the Marcado tastes like extremely watered-down (we can taste the "bottled water" flavor of he H2O) rose-petals, and the Red Oak Tennessee Cured tastes like extremely watered-down cat food, a weaker version of the Kiln House Genuine 22. Something is extremely wrong with Johnson Creek's production standards; the previous round of juices tasted like engine grease, and this round tastes like bottled water. The consistency of the juices, despite being %100 or predominant VG, is pure water. Almost colorless and water-thin.
We're very confident that whoever is mixing these juices simply doesn't know what they're doing, and is putting way too much flavor concentration and/or water into the mix, and is forgetting to add multiple flavorings. Thankfully, Johnson Creek's return policy is the absolute best in the business, they'll do anything you ask, no questions. We're being refunded for the whole journey. Amazing customer service, truly, but at this point, we can see why: the truth is, we wouldn't even give this stuff away. It's rank and some of it tastes plain unhealthy.